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RBY OU / 1U (OverUsed) Persian [Done]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by CrapAtRBY, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. RBYer

    RBYer Member

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    It’s remote enough to not be supremely worried about it. Say you have a 50% chance of winning. If you’re giving it away literally 100% of the time (which we know is never the case), then the other 87.5% of the time, all you need to do is win 57.1% of the time to make up for it. And like I said many times, knowing that option is out there is enough to make it effective, even if you don’t end up using it that given time.

    That would probably be the only Pokemon on your team that faces that problem.

    I guess I can respect Hyper Beam being slightly viable, but Smogon bumps Body Slam down into “other options”, when the outpredicting risk around Hyper Beam is clearly more significant than the risk of Wrapping 2 extra times. There’s the cases of you getting paralyzed, where Hyper Beam does gain some use but it’s not like you’re getting much value out of it in that case.

    It’s useful for bringing the Starmie/Zapdos/whatever in on your ass to completely destroy you in your recharge turn, when you can just switch out after Clamp to a Pokemon of your choice.

    It doesn’t hurt against Chansey either who turns into a more likely Clamp victim.


    What Cloyster offers, above Toxic support, is Clamp support, that is: freezing Pokemon in place so that your Persian can get free hits. When Cloyster uses Clamp it’s generally not trying to do anything that special except give you free switches, and do a little damage in the process, but once you figure the Starmie is coming in to deal with your Clamp, you nail it.

    I think you’re mainly looking at the problem of building a team using Persian + 5 Pokemon. I think you legitimately cannot make a team with Persian and no Exeggutor, due to Gengar problems, although I actually like the Tauros lead idea to try to hack out lead Gengars before they realize you have a Persian.


    Because you have an Exeggutor, I wouldn’t worry that much about Alakazam, or trying something like Sing Chansey (I think the standard Boltbeam + Thunder Wave works fine, although there is an argument for Reflect, but that would be a weird situation where I wouldn’t want to give up Ice Beam or Thunder Wave.


    I can’t honestly think of a way to make a team with Persian and Cloyster, or Persian and no Cloyster, but I did use a Tauros lead with Cloyster I believe, back in my best Persian team.


    I feel like Golem becomes almost a necessity, to deal with Zapdos problems, and because it is better than Rhydon at creating a pathway for victory.

    If you think Exeggutor is coming in, you Body Slam - if you think Starmie is coming in, you Earthquake.

    It’s not a matter of “I don’t want Chansey paralyzed”, as much as it is a matter of the team being Chansey-centric and thus my Chansey will probably be paralyzed, from which perspective it would rather choose a freeze war if it has a chance to have one. I like Golem a lot for that role for a few reasons though.


    A weakness of the team is its overreliance on Chansey, but you can at least try to make the best of that with the Softboiled/Thunder Wave/Ice Beam/Reflect set. Which brings in the Slowbro problem though. Meh.

    Does anyone actually have an effective OU/1U team that uses Persian that they can post?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    The game is largely about probability management so selling a strategy with a chance as large as that as failing on Pokémon which tend to perform worse in general, so I feel like it really ought not to be disregarded.
    Snorlax too if paralyzed, Rhydon / Golem if they've taken enough to be in range of an attack from Starmie, Exeggutor, ... though since we're discussing a team with Cloyster and Persian, we can assume Lax and Tauros are on the team, if your lead is Alakazam / Jynx then they qualify too, if you're running Chansey without Thunderbolt then it too, if you're running Exeggutor without Mega Drain than that too. So no it kind of affects virtually everything. Also Cloyster can't attempt to freeze it with Blizzard but that's not very important.
    Smogon's analyses are largely out of date by a couple of years if written by Crystal_ or Jorgen, or much much worse if it wasn't. Also wrap hasn't seen competitive use until the past few years (it wasn't functional until PO, rby2k10 had it banned, and Smogon's not been particularly lively for RBY). The only person who really ever experimented with Dragonite by the time that an analysis for this on Smogon might have been written was Dre89, who did sometimes use Body Slam. On PP it's listed under the set details indicating that it's a definite viable option but usually not the preferred choice, which is an accurate assessment.
    ??????

    Obviously there's risk-reward when doing it, if you don't like the risk of recharge you can always use Double Edge which obviously does less damage but still does enough.
    Neither cloyster not persian really wants to be in against Chansey unless it's in range of their attacks. The risk of paralysis is huge for both.
    Agreed, and anti-physical support.
    I mean lead / big 4 / persian works ok. Persian is really really not my style of Pokémon but I know Bedschibaer made it work a few months ago so maybe they can post something.

    And really you don't need Exeggutor for Gengar support too desperately, Chansey itself is pretty good at that, as well as any other Psychic-type without a secondary Water typing, as well as any Ground type, as well as Jolteon and Zapdos. It's also not like Exeggutor really does anything to steal momentum from Gengar or remove it, it merely is another stop to it doing damage, which isn't a huge deal.
    I mean it's nice but I don't really think you can fit it and making it hard for it to switch in and having Lax / Chansey is usually enough but you could use a rock over Lax if you really felt the need I guess, I just don't like it because then you have even more of a hard time actually breaking Chansey.
    I mean I guess in the super-specific scenario where you have a rock + your team with cloyster and persian versus toxic'd starmie and exeggutor. But yeah thing is once Starmie's Toxic'd you literally can't use Tauros to clean up in the end game because you can't beat up on Starmie with it when Starmie is toxic'd without getting lucky.
     
  3. RBYer

    RBYer Member

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    I don't have much to offer. I mainly agree with everything you said. It seems like the Tauros thing was the big point of contention. I've never seen Persian as something that really runs well alongside Tauros as late gamers, as neither really do that much to break down each other's walls compared to other options (the closest would be trying to outluck lead Gengars with lead Tauros). Tauros naturally should come in before Persian, due to its Body Slam support, but the question becomes when? And I find that lead is as good as any situation because you get the chance of them leading with Gengar, where you have a chance of really harming it, or getting the switch to a water which is beneficial for scouting purposes.

    And as such, when I did use Toxic, it was all under the condition that I didn't have a Tauros in waiting, whether it was asleep, paralyzed, fainted, or perhaps not even on my team. But such is the consequence of using lead Tauros.

    As for the whole Hyper Beam on Dragonite, one thing I will never give up Body Slam should be the primary option, and that is the only way to really be fair if your goal is to give good advice.

    When you are wrap trapping, it's much better to take the 72% chance of hitting than to offer your opponent a prediction way out. And the better players who use Hyper Beam often do "safety Wraps" for the direct purpose of guarding against switch-ins. If you are doing safety Wraps, it's extremely counter-intuitive to use anything but Body Slam.
     
  4. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    So I haven't looked too closely at the walls of text, but I want to point out the scenario isn't "having Persian on the team" but "the opponent directly switches Starmie into your Persian's Slash", which is quite a bit more specific. And the reason I point out the general reasons why Toxic is terrible is because outside that specific situation you describe there are a lot of scenarios where Toxic's flaws take precedence, too many to ever justify its use (even if you're running Persian). When you say stuff like "Toxic is good to support Persian" that's a very general statement and very far removed from the highly specific scenario you described.

    See above for why this is not an effective response to me. I just want to point out that you're being extremely condescending and disrespectful yourself when you suggest that I have a "thinking problem"
    Doing something that only works in your favour in one specific scenario and totally burns you otherwise is hardly reliable.
    If you are going to engage in a debate, don't do so by cherry-picking arguments that are convenient for your own purposes. I described a host of cases where it'll backfire and you're ignoring all of them to suit your own purposes. Also again, condescending, something that forms a very distinct trend throughout your posts.

    Surely you're kidding right? Starmie's defensive capabilities are enhanced by being dealt a shitty status, as pokemon that can threaten it without either para or a super effective move are few and far between. And even then you run into issues, because although you're not paralysing Starmie, it can certainly do the same to you, and poison damage isn't enough to prevent stalling for fp turns from being a winning play in the majority of situations.
    Could you make a worse assumption? What you're describing here is blatant nonsense. Hyper Beam is far from useless, given that it's threatening many of the special walls that might otherwise handle Cloy. Does it have its downsides? Sure. But it serves a purpose, and it's up to the player to evaluate whether or not it's worth it. You've gone and used your personal subjective evaluation as an assertion of fact, all the while doing nothing to justify either your own perspective or why your perspective is more valid. Do you want people to take you seriously or not? In any case, the grounds on which you've discounted the notion of opportunity cost are ridiculous, especially given that Rest is also a very good option for Cloy. Lastly, if a move has negative utility (ie. Toxic) opportunity cost goes out the window, which is the case as toxic will more often harm a team than help it.

    A few things stick out here. First is that you appear to be incapable of grasping that there are many scenarios which are not what you described, and that you might need to actually address them in order to justify your position. I considered going through your individual points but they all possessed the exact same fallacy.

    Second is that you really have no idea how to engage in a debate. Your opinions are not facts, and furthermore they must be justified. Being condescending gets you nowhere and only ensures you won't be taken seriously, not to mention the fact that it's incredibly disrespectful. You're probably thinking something along the lines of "pot, kettle, black" when I say this, but it's still valid, especially when you've done nothing to prove you're the authority you seem to think you are.

    I also disagree when you say that Tauros/Persian aren't good teammates if they're both sweepers, in fact that's the only way in which I'd contemplate running them, as Persian is inferior to Tauros in more scenarios than not, while Tauros outside a lategame sweeping role just isn't playing to its strengths. Although neither of them are "wallbreakers", lategame they do function to break each other's walls, given that outside of Gengar their C&C list is practically the same, so it becomes easy to overload physical checks.

    I also disagree that Tauros should generally enter play before Persian, with my answer instead being "it depends". Specifically, on what the context in which they enter play is. If it's say an early/mid game opportunity due to revenge killing or punishing passive play or w/e, then Tauros is the call for the reason you describe. If it's the natural progression towards the endgame, I like to play Persian first, simply because I'd rather sacrifice it to clear the way for Tauros than the reverse, as Tauros is generally better. Also there are some situations where Persian is awesome, like if you get an opportunity for a Tauros ditto, sending in Persian instead is fun because you just about KO their Tauros while keeping your own fresh, effectively allowing you to have your cake and eat it too. I mean those are just general things, it's really dependent on the situation at hand.
     
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  5. RBYer

    RBYer Member

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    "Having Starmie switch into your Persian's Slash" is a big fucking deal. I love how you try to downplay one of the two really repeatable scenarios that you are expected to see in OU, the other one being "having Gengar switch into your Persian's Slash", which is why I feel Persian is such an instant liability on your team. It's not really like Zapdos/Goldon, where Zapdos is a multi-purpose monster who still can affect the battle with the presence of Goldon. Persian is fragile "offense" that is owned by non-paralyzed full health Starmie, unless you do stupid moves and get lucky, to the point where it is way too often fragile and not offense. You say what I wrote is bullshit, yet you keep re-packaging the same bullshit.

    Toxic becomes the reliable mediocre thing, compared to the unreliable maybe-preferred thing (mainly depending on if/how you are using Tauros and Snorlax). And otherwise Cloyster provides the kind of support that is very beneficial to Persian. Persian needs free turns, and I don't know if there is another Pokemon in the game who better creates free turns. The key point, is, like your example of Tauros/Persian sometimes wanting to come in on a different order, depending on the state of the game, using Toxic can be beneficial to you in many gamestates on a Persian team no matter how many bad reasons you can come up with in some kind of crusade against not having take up one not-very-valuable moveslot.

    Cloyster Hyper Beam is laughable, especially now that it is so expected thanks to Smogon and their reliably bad advice. What remotely used Pokemon do you Hyper Beam against compared to Clamp? Basically paralyzed Starmie/Alakazam/unparalyzed Chansey. Or at least that is what it's supposed to be used against. But something like Cloyster with basically zero sweeping potential is almost 100% better off Clamping and then taking advantage of the free switch, an ability that is magnified on a team with Persian. I guess Hyper Beam has 90% accuracy and can kill things occasionally when you are in some sort of endgame scenario and Cloyster is somehow still alive, but it's a matter of using its accuracy advantage over Clamp when it is faster (otherwise they will just recover it off). Surf and Ice Beam have an accuracy advantage over Clamp too, and can be used alongside Clamp for safer wins, without the added risk of being locked into death (which is quite important when you are packing Explosion). And certainly since you seem to think 12.5% is such a big deal, you can see why 10% can be important (which essentially turns into 27% when you are hitting for 3 turns), especially when Ice Beam/Surf is a >99.9% 3hko on Tauros, while Blizzard never 2hkos. And as one of Cloyster's calling cards is its performance against Tauros, that is also a big fucking deal.

    The normal hierarchy of the 4th move on Cloyster is Ice Beam/Surf/Rest > Hyper Beam > Toxic, but if you intend to use Persian in a certain way (only with the Screech variant, as Thunderbolt is an extremely effective crit-fisher against paralyzed Starmie, putting it in range of Slash), I won quite a bit where opportunities opened up due to my use of Toxic. Although I wouldn't say that the team was viable competitively, I still am unconvinced that any team can be... how much success have you had?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    So yea only one pokemon that is on 90% of teams and then the 2 next most common / best Pokémon for the lead / filler slots, no big deal.

    Like Hyper beam on Exeggutor, having Hyper beam doesn't nessecitate the user is a sweeper, but it can be used to force the opponent's hand more, and force the opponent into another risk/reward consideration. Also if you do have Hyper Beam then it does massively increase sweeping potential should you happen upon such a situation.

    I mean that is notable but then again Blizzard gets the KO when Tauros has taken 2 tauros body slams, which is a bigger deal than the reliable 3HKO. I still think Hyper Beam is generally superior since it increases your targets rather than making one matchup a bit more reliable, but obviously it's a matter of opinion.
     
  7. RBYer

    RBYer Member

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    Oh come on. You very well know that I am not talking about "when these Pokemon" are used, but rather extremely specific late-game situations which you rarely, rarely find yourself in, and hilariously enough, where using Hyper Beam may lead to your demise. Like if they have a Chansey and a Paralyzed Starmie at full health. And you have maybe half of your HP left. They see their Chansey is in the danger zone, so they switch to Starmie, which has... zero chance of getting killed by a Hyper Beam, which then switches in and fucks you up. Hyper Beam is fine if you have some kind of god-level abilities of predicting, but for those who actually are human, its use is so extremely limited.
    Hyper Beam Exeggutor has things going for it that Cloyster does not, and despite my strongly negative opinion toward Cloyster and Dragonite, it actually serves a legitimate purpose on Exeggutor, which is enhanced due to its surprise factor. Mainly because it has such good special tanking abilities and also can take paralysis, specifically when dealing with those pesky Alakazams.
    I am not suggesting replacing Blizzard, but rather having a 100% accuracy move alongside it. Ice Beam gets the game-changing freezes, while Surf guarantees the one hitter on Goldon that Ice Beam never gets and Blizzard doesn't reliably get. Both of them can also be used for finishing blows on various things as a superior option to Clamp and Blizzard.

    So if you have a Tauros in waiting, you just use Blizzard, or if you intend to switch it in: Ice Beam + Clamp + switchout, which I believe does more damage than Blizzard. Way less accurate, but the reward is switching in Tauros without it having to take a hit.
    The thing is: once Cloyster comes in, you don't want it to get hit at all, and Cloyster's bad ability against switch-ins after scoring a KO means that if possible, you usually want to Clamp+switch to something which doesn't have those issues, rather than finish it off on your own. And even against the paralyzed Alakazams, you can just Clamp them down and finish with Blizzard or 100% depending on what works better. It does require slightly more luck but despite that, most of the time less things can go wrong that way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  8. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Not really that specific, and considering how little use the 4th move is anyway it's pretty useful in my eyes compared to its other option. Obviously Hyper Beam is prediction reliant, but even having the option on your set often enough helps you force the opponent's hand.
    Yeah I know they're valid. I still prefer HB and still prefer any of these to Toxic.
     
  9. RBYer

    RBYer Member

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    Force their hand into doing what? And until they see the move that isn't on the Smogon set, they will guard against it because it's on the Smogon set :)
    In a general sense, Toxic is worse than any of the options, but that's something that never was really in contention. I wouldn't even include Toxic in analyses. If I were to write one, it would have Blizzard, Clamp, Explosion, Ice Beam/Surf/Rest and Hyper Beam in extra options. I guess that's why we battle though - to figure out who makes the better choices!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  10. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Even the knowledge that Hyper Beam is the standard means someone's not going to try and get off a thunder wave or softboiled from a low HP with Chansey or Starmie for example. If you're not running Hyper Beam then you can't actually capitalise on the mindgame properly but even if you're not running Hyper Beam you still benefit from that mindgame existing. If you do have Hyper Beam then you can obviously punish them if they don't respect that option. If they try and switch into your potential Hyper Beam obviously you could Blizzard or Clamp instead, but Hyper Beam is generally superior because it gives you the capacity to play that mindgame and because it means you don't need to bluff having the move but can actually use it some of the time so that otherwise people don't just call your bluff after a time. See now I know since you won't usually run Hyper Beam on Cloyster, if we happen to battle and you have Cloyster vs my 30% Chansey for example, then I'll know it's basically safe to try and Thunder Wave / Softboiled there should you miss Clamp. If you did have Hyper Beam then I'd be forced to play around that option.

    And please stop assuming people will just work off of Smogon sets, PP has better / more up to date analyses for RBY @_@

    Then I'll say more specifically, even if I ran Cloyster + Persian I'd prefer Hyper Beam > Double Edge / Surf / Ice Beam / Rest > Toxic. I feel like the situation you're proposing the theoretical use for is too high risk and unlikely, and I feel like the benefits of its other moves outweight Toxic's even on a team alongside Persian.
     
  11. RBYer

    RBYer Member

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    You know because of what I said already. But because I said this already, it would make more sense for me to run Hyper Beam on Cloyster, right? I probably get more utility out of Hyper Beam on Cloyster than almost any other player, simply from my comments in this thread, which I may have just lost :p

    Let's be honest. Most people let Smogon think for them, and I don't see a corresponding easy-to-navigate analysis thing on this site. Maybe I'm missing something? And lol@Smogon's analysis. "Fearing switching in a rock type on Cloyster". Yeah cause that is the first thing that they will switch in on a Hyper Beam. :rolleyes: Of course that's what you get when you are more of a social structure than a competitive community.

    As for Toxic with Persian, it's still team-dependent. So when I'm running lead Tauros, you bet I'm using Toxic. In other situations, maybe not so much...
     
  12. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    All Gens - Analysis Index | Pokémon Perfect
    This stickied thread is what we have for now.

    And some of Smogon's analyses are literally ancient, and some of them are obviously patently dreadful even if the moveset is correct. As of late they're definitely more of a competitive community than social structure in RBY and it's not like all of their RBY analyses are dreadful - the ones which Crystal_ wrote a couple of years back [Tauros / Exeggutor / Snorlax / Chansey / Alakazam / Starmie / Lapras / Dragonite I think?] are still pretty good and are at least likely to be fairly accurate.
     
  13. RBYer

    RBYer Member

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    Do you know how Wrap is simulated on PO and PS specifically at the moment? This may be why I thought HB was so bad. If the target is not alerted to when Wrap ends, then HB becomes tons better.
     
  14. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    That's currently how it's implemented on both.
     
  15. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Toxic is a decent move on Zapdos. And Toxic/Fire Blast can be somewhat useful if you're running Dragonite.

    Otherwise I'm not touching that quivering blob of quote spaghetti.
     
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  16. GGFan

    GGFan Member

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    Hyper Beam Exeggutor is certainly legit (after all, I'm the one who invented it or at least popularized it with the name BeamGore) for similar reasons that Hyper Beam is legit on Cloyster as well. I don't see why it's so hard to understand that Hyper Beam allows you to reliably kill off paralyzed Alakazams, Chanseys, Starmies, etc without needing to use a less accurate move. I noticed something in that wall of text about how Hyper Beam isn't good because it's predictable or something like that, which is ridiculous. I guess Hyper Beam on Tauros is bad as well since the opponent can switch out, right? I feel like this is one of these "I'm going to argue for the sake of arguing" threads.

    With that said, if I weren't going to use Hyper Beam I'd say Rest is the next best option, but honestly I feel that Hyper Beam is better because it maximizes Cloyster's sweeping potential. Without Hyper Beam, you give the aforementioned Pokemon more chances to evade Clamp and attack/paralyze Cloyster. You can always use Explosion if Clamp hax doesn't go your way, but Hyper Beam gives you a better chance to kill 2 Pokemon instead of 1.

    "Fearing switching in a rock type on Cloyster". Yeah cause that is the first thing that they will switch in on a Hyper Beam"

    I've never used Smogon's horrible analyses and have been making fun of them with other people for years, but if I felt the Hyper Beam was obvious, Cloyster was paralyzed, and, say, switching to Rhydon was my best option in order to keep my chances of winning alive, it would be a sound decision considering two Rock Slides hit for 282 damage on average (93%). Basically, Rhydon would be able to kill Cloyster pretty easily (barring awful rolls, I guess) even if the only attack Cloyster took beforehand was a Tauros Body Slam, which does, like, 20-21%.

    But yeah, the way it was written was pretty bad, as it didn't explain why you would want to do that, and the reason is very specific (a high-risk play that would only work if Cloyster was paralyzed and at less than 90%). RBY on Smogon has always been a joke, though.
     
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  17. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    I've never heard that name before, lol. Nonetheless it does still stick in my mind that you were one of the earlier users of the set.
    It might be, watch out! I find it easy to get trapped in them too.
     
  18. RBYer

    RBYer Member

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    GGFan it was my mistake because I thought Wrap was handled differently on simulators. It was actually Disaster Area's link to analyses and perusing Dragonite which made me realize that it was handled in a way making Hyper Beam much more beneficial. If your opponent knows when Wrap ends as it was when I played the majority of RBY, Hyper Beam becomes effectively crap. However, it isn't that way. But of course the Smogoons still argued for Hyper Beam being a superior move to Body Slam on Dragonite when it worked that way, when it clearly wasn't. It is true that you can argue for situational use of switching in rocks, but yeah it's just how Smogon decided to word it, making it seem like rocks are the biggest switch-in when predicting Hyper Beams, when obviously it's Starmie/Cloyster/Slowbro/Lapras/something with good defense and Ice or Paralysis. Even Stun Spore Exeggutor would be a good switch, and generally used over Goldon.
     
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  19. Conni

    Conni turn your magic on Member

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    Grammar Prose AmCheck
    remove add (comment) AC = Add Comma RC = Remove Comma AA = Add Apostrophe

    Persian

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Type: Normal
    Stats: 65|70|60|65|115

    Introduction

    Persian joins the likes of Kangaskhan and Dodrio as one of the secondary physical threats you will see in OU from time to time,(RC).(add period)Persian is best used alongside Tauros rather than as a replacement, Persian needs paralysis support as most of the big OU threats will beat it in a 1v1 situation and is overall a mediocre choice in OU, but in certain situations it can shine.

    Persian's main claims to fame are it's huge speed Speed (tying Starmie and being outsped by just Jolteon, Alakazam and gimmick/niche pokemon such as Dugtrio and Aerodactyl) which allows it to threaten to revenge kill Tauros and its access to slash Slash, which due to RBY's crit mechanics, will always crit if it hits, giving Persian a 140BP STAB Move with no drawbacks, compensating for its meager attack. Nevertheless,(AC) Persian remains outside of 1U thanks to occupying the same niche as the omnipresent and vastly superior Tauros,(RC) and it's awful defences Defense stat and being utterly crippled by paralysis.

    Sweeper/Revenge Killer

    Persian @ (No Item)
    - Slash
    - Hyper Beam
    - Bubblebeam
    - Screech/Thunderbolt

    Set Details

    Slash will be your main move and should be used against anything that doesn't resist it, as it always crits;(Add SemiColon) it will be unaffected by Reflect and able to dole deal out impressive damage to the likes of Alakazam (59.7 - 70.2% -- guaranteed 2HKO) and Chansey (46 - 54.1% -- 53.8% chance to 2HKO), the downside is, as Slash will forever crit, there's no way to squeeze out any extra damage from it when you're desperate. This is where hyper beam Hyper Beam comes in. Hyper Beam is slightly more powerful than slash Slash without a crit, and can be used in those situations where you need that extra bit of damage, but it really comes in handy in those clutch situations where Persian needs a critical hit to avoid dying, which between Persian's frailty and 22.46% crit rate can actually save you relatively often. Bubblebeam is for Golem (57 - 67.2% -- guaranteed 2HKO) and Rhydon (55.9 - 65.8% -- guaranteed 2HKO) only. The final slot has 2 main options; Screech shines when you're facing your opponent'(AA)s last Pokemon, Thunderbolt is mainly for to check Cloyster and Slowbro, as Slash is better against the other waters Water-type Pokemon.

    Other Options

    Body Slam can paralyse Starmie on the switch. Thunder hits Cloyster for 53.1% on average and is slightly better than Slash against Starmie and Lapras. Mimic exists but Earthquake is the only useful move Persian could get.

    Checks and Counters

    Although Gengar is Persian's only hard counter, almost everything in 1U will beat Persian 1v1 so Persian is best used as a revenge killer. Starmie can even switch in on Slash and recover off Recover any damage, but screech and thunderbolt Screech and Thunderbolt both help beat Starmie. GolDon(please tell me what this Pokemon niche is? CrapAtRBY ) can switch in on Slash/Hyper Beam but need to be wary of Bubblebeam. Slowbro isn't even 3HKO'd by Slash and can even beat TBolt Thunderbolt Persian (31.5 - 37.1%) in a pinch. Persian is utterly crippled by paralysis and must avoid it unless absolutely necessary.

    CrapAtRBY Sobi

    [​IMG] Implement this once it has been stamped or checked by an official Grammar Prose Member [​IMG]
     
  20. Sobi

    Sobi hi Member

    Joined:
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    Persian

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Type: Normal
    Stats: 65|70|60|65|115

    Introduction

    Persian joins the likes of Kangaskhan and Dodrio as one of the secondary physical threats you will see in OU from time to time,(RC).(add period)Persian is best used alongside Tauros rather than as a replacement, Persian needs paralysis support, as most of the big OU threats will beat it in a one-on-one situation, and it is overall a mediocre choice in OU, but in certain situations, it can shine.

    Persian's main claims to fame are its impressive speed Speed (it Speed ties with Starmie and is outsped by just Jolteon, Alakazam, and niche Pokemon such as Dugtrio and Aerodactyl), which allows it to revenge kill Tauros, and its access to slash Slash, which, due to RBY's critical hit mechanics, will always land a critical hit, giving Persian a 140-Base Power STAB Move with no drawbacks, compensating for its meager Attack. Nevertheless,(AC) Persian remains outside of 1U thanks to occupying the same niche as the omnipresent and vastly superior Tauros, its awful defences Defense stat, and being utterly crippled by paralysis.

    Sweeper / Revenge Killer

    Persian
    - Slash
    - Hyper Beam
    - Bubble Beam
    - Screech / Thunderbolt

    Set Details

    Slash will be Persian's main move and should be used against anything that doesn't resist it, as it always lands a critical hit;(Add SemiColon) it will be unaffected by Reflect and able to dole deal impressive damage to the likes of Alakazam (59.7 - 70.2% -- guaranteed 2HKO) and Chansey (46 - 54.1% -- 53.8% chance to 2HKO). However, as Slash will forever land a critical hit, there's no way to squeeze out any extra damage from it when you're desperate. This is where hyper beam Hyper Beam comes in. Hyper Beam is slightly more powerful than slash Slash without a critical hit, and it can be used in those situations when you need that extra bit of damage, but it really comes in handy in those clutch situations where Persian needs a critical hit to avoid fainting, which, between Persian's frailty and 22.46% critical hit rate, can actually save you relatively often. Bubble Beam is for Golem (57 - 67.2% -- guaranteed 2HKO) and Rhydon (55.9 - 65.8% -- guaranteed 2HKO) only. The final slot has two main options; Screech shines when Persian's facing your opponent'(AA)s last Pokemon, while Thunderbolt is mainly for to check Cloyster and Slowbro, as Slash is better against the other waters Water-type Pokemon.

    Other Options

    Body Slam can paralyse Starmie on the switch. Thunder hits Cloyster for 53.1% on average and is slightly better than Slash against Starmie and Lapras. Mimic exists, but Earthquake is the only useful move Persian could get.

    Checks and Counters

    Although Gengar is Persian's only hard counter, almost everything in 1U will beat Persian one-on-one, so Persian is best used as a revenge killer. Starmie can even switch in on Slash and recover off Recover any damage, but screech and thunderbolt Screech and Thunderbolt both help beat Starmie. GolDon (what core is this? please mention both pokemon like "[mon] + [mon]") can switch in on Slash and Hyper Beam but need to be wary of Bubble Beam. Slowbro isn't even 3HKOed by Slash and can even beat TBolt Thunderbolt Persian (31.5 - 37.1%) in a pinch. Persian is utterly crippled by paralysis and must avoid it unless absolutely necessary.

    went over the amcheck, made my own edits (didn't show them to save time for the writer). nice job Sans , you missed some stuff again but it's just a matter of re-reading over your edits and spotting that odd uncapitalised word :)

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