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RBY OU / 1U (OverUsed) Onix [WIP]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Enigami, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Onix [​IMG]
    Type: Rock / Ground
    Stats: 35 | 45 | 160 | 35 | 70


    Introduction

    Faced with the massively stronger Rock / Ground-types Rhydon and Golem, Onix finds itself mostly outclassed. Onix is KO'd by virtually any super effective Special attack, and its low HP stat leaves it 3HKO'd by Seismic Toss and Night Shade. Furthermore, its terrible Attack stat is roughly half of Rhydon's and Golem's leaving even Onix's Explosion nothing to fear. To make any impact in a match, Onix must rely on what little it has that the superior Rhydon and Golem lack: base 70 Speed and Bind. It has too little power to sweep effectively with the inaccurate Bind alone, so even then Toxic is needed to make Onix a threat. As spreading Poisoned status is usually detrimental to normal playstyles, Onix mostly only fits on partial trapping teams that benefit from Toxic. While still a gimmick, Onix simultaneously fills the job of Zapdos and Jolteon counter, Normal-resist and partial trapper sweeper, which can find it a place on niche ToxicWrap teams.

    Sets

    Standard

    Onix
    - Bind
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
    - Body Slam / Explosion

    Set Details

    Bind allows Onix to pivot or rack up poison damage, and is the only reason you would use Onix instead of Rhydon or Golem. Toxic is key to making Onix into a threat, as slower poisoned would-be answers can be handled with Bind. Toxic must be played carefully, as fast unstatused Pokemon like Alakazam and Starmie benefit immensely from poison blocking sleep and paralysis. Earthquake is Onix's STAB, and required to keep Gengar from walling it. Body Slam is Onix's best means to punish fast non Normal-types that may try to switch in, potentially crippling them with paralysis. While weak, Explosion can still be used to trade with a sufficiently weakened key threat.

    Other Options

    Rock Slide is Onix's other STAB, but its low damage even on super-effective hits makes it hard to justify a slot and Onix can utilize other means to scare out Zapdos. Screech can be used to soften up the opponent's last Pokemon or to cancel out Reflect in a pinch, but is mostly useless outside these situations.

    Checks and Counters

    Anything with a super-effective Special attack and higher Speed is atleast a check if not a counter, and anything slower with a super-effective Special attack can atleast OHKO Onix if it misses with Bind. Tauros fears nothing from Onix and OHKOs with Blizzard, leaving its only concerns being chip damage or Bind allowing Onix to pivot out to a suitable answer to it. Alakazam and Starmie comfortably survive even Onix's Explosion and recover, greatly enjoy being hit with Toxic, and ultimately only has to be wary of Body Slam paralysis and critical hit Explosion. Victreebel and Cloyster threaten Onix severely with their equal speed and super effective STAB attacks, with the former exploiting Onix to spread status as well while freely switching into Toxic. Exeggutor takes extremely little damage directly from Onix's attacks, though once poisoned Onix can wear down Exeggutor quickly with Bind. Articuno is faster, is immune to Earthquake and is 2HKO'd by Rock Slide despite being 4x effective, making it a very effective switch-in. Gengar can survive two Earthquakes from Onix, allowing it to beat Onix one on one with either Mega Drain (OHKO) or Psychic (2HKO). As Onix is heavily reliant on its Speed and Bind paired with Toxic, inflicting paralysis will completely cripple Onix.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    did we even put this in D Rank? Hey can you check does it beat Zapdos 1v1?
     
  3. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    D Rank? Its not even F. I just did this on a whim, although I forgot we aren't doing G Ranks. Is it acceptable to keep it anyways as an explanation of why its unusable?

    As for Zapdos, it quite comfortably beats it 1v1:
    Onix Rock Slide vs. Zapdos: 117-138 (30.5 - 36%) -- 47.1% chance to 3HKO
    Zapdos Drill Peck vs. Onix: 28-34 (10.2 - 12.4%) -- possible 9HKO

    Doesn't mean much when even Geodude can achieve that too:
    Geodude Rock Slide vs. Zapdos: 158-186 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    Zapdos Drill Peck vs. Geodude: 40-48 (14.1 - 16.9%) -- possible 6HKO
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2015
  4. CrapAtRBY

    CrapAtRBY Member

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    Some comical damage calculations from 2k1o

    Bellsprout's Vine Whip: 277-236 (101%-86%)
    Tentacool's Water Gun: 392-333 (144%-122%)
    Moltres's Fire Blast: 168-142 (62%-52%)
    Golduck's 3x Amnesia Hydro Pump: 3836-3264 (1405%-1196%)
     
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  5. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Keep it I guess then.

    Edit the title to GP Ready now, I feel it's done discussion wise.
     
  6. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Thanks to that enormous Defense stat, it does (unless it's Reflect/Rest Zapdos). But it loses to Moltres despite resisting all its moves and having a 4x SE STAB attack (2HKO both ways; Moltres is faster).

    I object to the word "virtually" in "Pathetic attacking stats, extremely low HP that undermines its Defense, and middling speed leave Onix virtually unusable." I also kinda question the need for a full OU analysis; it's almost as pointless as doing an OU analysis of Kadabra considering Onix is generally considered inferior to Graveler. A NU or even UU analysis might be called for, but I think an OU analysis should be just the intro paragraph with a couple of changes.
     
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  7. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Yeah maybe it would be best just to have a page explaining why it's not good enough for OU would be enough.
     
  8. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Agreed, and done. "Onix is generally considered inferior to Graveler" - just considered? I think even Geodude and Rhyhorn would be superior unless Onix's speed is really needed for something.
     
  9. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Well, my point was that since Onix is worse than Graveler (which is strictly outclassed in OU by its evolution, like Kadabra), Onix is also in the "straight garbage" category as far as OU's concerned despite not technically being dominated. It seems we have an understanding, in any case.

    I'm a bit conservative with my language regarding the lower tiers since I've never played anything besides OU and Ubers; better to be too cautious than too arrogant.
     
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  10. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Furthermore we are re-hashing the lower tiers I guess, redo-ing or some word like that.

    Previous tiers were made based on power not viability, with wrap illegal, and the old mechanics, so enough reason to redo them.. the list of mons considered 2U is possibly (no guarantee) going to be released soon-ish.
     
  11. Sobi

    Sobi hi Member

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    Onix [​IMG]
    Type: Rock / Ground
    Stats: 35 | 45 | 160 | 35 | 70


    Introduction
    Pathetic attacking stats, extremely low HP that undermines its Defense, and middling Speed leave Onix unusable. Its stats are terrible compared to most other fully evolved Pokemon in RBY, and it has almost no usable support moves that could give it even a small niche. Everything in OU with Grass-, Water-, or Ice-type coverage counters it. Even the unevolved Geodude and Rhyhorn give Onix serious competition. Its access to partial trapping is the one thing that makes Onix stand out, but that is not enough to save it from its shortcomings in all other aspects. Onix is best treated as the LC Pokemon it becomes from GSC onward and should only be used in tiers well below OU or for fun.
    ez gp 1/1
     
  12. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Onix is due for a new analysis,
    A) because it's no longer G ranked after I found a niche for it and needs a proper analysis
    B) because I've won my final PPL match with it :)

    Expect it soon!
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
  13. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    New analysis complete!

    For posterity, my old Onix anaylsis:
    Onix [​IMG]
    Type: Rock / Ground
    Stats: 35 | 45 | 160 | 35 | 70


    Introduction
    Pathetic attacking stats, extremely low HP that undermines its Defense, and middling Speed leave Onix unusable. Its stats are terrible compared to most other fully evolved Pokemon in RBY, and it has almost no usable support moves that could give it even a small niche. Everything in OU with Grass-, Water-, or Ice-type coverage counters it. Even the unevolved Geodude and Rhyhorn give Onix serious competition. Its access to partial trapping is the one thing that makes Onix stand out, but that is not enough to save it from its shortcomings in all other aspects. Onix is best treated as the LC Pokemon it becomes from GSC onward and should only be used in tiers well below OU or for fun.
     
  14. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    I would appreciate you saying something along the lines of "it's absolutely a gimmicky pick, but it technically has this niche, so here is how you go about best using it"... I guess just specifically put gimmick or a synonym of that word in the intro somewhere, it's really necessary to make it clear, lol. Maybe also mention that if you want to use it in serious play, it is a viable Pokemon in RBY 6U.

    Kinda feel like Rock Slide should really be slashed in the set, unless onix really can beat zapdos 1v1 with just toxic+bind assuming it doesn't carry rest (no zapdos carries rest really these days but still)
     
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  15. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Just tested it. Onix CAN beat Zapdos with just Toxic+Bind, but it's entirely dependent on how much you miss and how many Bind turns you get should Zapdos stay in, and whether Onix switched into Drill Peck twice (Zap needs to switch out atleast once to stop Toxic buildup). I underestimated how quickly Zap can wear down Onix if Onix takes Drill Peck chip every time it comes in. Will slash Rock Slide on main set soon.
     
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