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RBY OU / 1U (OverUsed) Articuno [GP Ready]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Enigami, Dec 6, 2015.

  1. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Peasounay may be exaggerating, but only slightly and it's definitely not unreasonable. Agility is Zap's most useful 4th by a loooong margin. This is due to actually being useful in a wider range of scenarios than the alternatives (Zap getting paralysed is common because shit happens, while stuff like Thunder and HB are useful only against specific targets at specific %) and also being really impactful when it is used. I mean generally the tone of this post isn't good, but on top of that Peasounay's making a perfectly reasonable assertion

    As far as the filler goes, I'm adamantly opposed to Sky Attack getting any sort of mention outside OO- it probably shouldn't be mentioned at all tbh. It has literally nothing going for it besides "it can crit Chansey", while in many other ways worsening your chances of winning. If we compare it to Mimic, they both have similarly slim upsides, but where Mimic is merely a waste of a slot/turn most of the time, Sky Attack has not only a good chance of accomplishing nothing of significance, but also a sizable chance of backfiring because it's so damn exploitable
     
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  2. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Changed it to Blizzard / Hyper Beam / Agility / Filler and moved Rest + Reflect to OO
     
  3. CrapAtRBY

    CrapAtRBY Member

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    DEdge is kinda trash in isolation but so is everything not named Blizzard, it's main draw on Articuno for me is having a one turn attack with no drawbacks besides Blizzard. If you can bait EQs to bring Articuno in and force things out midgame, rather than just a pure focus on endgame sweeping, then Articuno should always have a one-turn attack besides Blizzard imo, it eases prediction and conserves Blizzard PP. DEdge is there just so you're not doubling up on Ice attacks.

    Blizzard
    Hyper Beam
    Ice Beam/Double Edge
    Agility/Substitute/Sky Attack/Mimic

    Sky Attack is unreliable and exploitable, but a timely crit can break games open, it's probably the most high risk high reward of Articuno's options and Articuno's a high risk high reward kinda mon, how often does Articuno's 4th move actually come in useful anyway? The opportunity cost in running Sky Attack is not that high.
     
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  4. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

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    Blizzard/Hyper Beam/Agility/Sky Attack.
    Slowbro is the only counter that can really tank a CH Sky Attack (considering that Articuno has access to Agility).
     
  5. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Sky Attack suffers from opportunity cost in the sense that you'd get more value from not running a 4th move at all, so as to minimise the risk of a misclick

    ^^^^^I typed that out, and I was about to go into detail as to how it's extremely punishable when it occurred to me that Lapras can't actually punish Articuno particularly heavily thanks to Cuno's immense bulk. This means that assuming that you force a switch on the charge turn, Sky Attack becomes a reasonable means of damaging Lap (and Cloy too), as it slightly outdamages STAB Blizzard from either (and Lap's Tbolt). Whether that's a worthwhile trade is up in the air, since Cuno will probably want that bulk to take on Tauros, but it's generally less valuable than Lap/Cloy so idk.

    Sky Attack should never be used if you expect anything with TWave to come in though. Saying Cuno's a high-risk pokemon doesn't cut it when you're making a move with such poor odds, one that leaves you with an extremely high chance of getting your bird crippled.
     
  6. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    I think its best to just leave Sky Attack in the filler pile.
     
  7. DarkCyborg

    DarkCyborg I represent the power of Ice! Member

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    Well, there is Mimic too. It's very situational, but it gives you the chance to get a TB from Lapras/Starmie and turn the match against these counters. Things like TW, EQ, Body Slam and Recover/Soft-Boiled can be interesting as well.

    Yeah, it's not a great move, there's a huge chance of getting an useless move, but honestly, Sky Attack is not great as well.
     
  8. RBYer

    RBYer Member

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    One thing I didn't see mentioned.

    Sky Attack can OHKO Chansey on a critical hit. But if you just used Blizzard twice, you'd have a higher chance of freezing it, as well as the obvious extra freedom to switch out after using it once. Same with Starmie. Ice Beam is obviously slightly better at that too.

    So Sky Attack is only marginally helpful due to Freeze Clause scenarios? And sometimes being ever so slightly better than the other options against Lapras and Cloyster (until you get GolDonned).
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
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  9. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

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    Sky Attack fits well in the Agility+Hyper Beam core and it's helpful against para'd Starmie and Chansey, that you'll often face and obviously won't freeze (Articuno is a mixed sweeper, and I see no reason to not TWave opposing Chansey); damage is always nice as it forces opponents to use recovery moves.
    Starmie gets para'd by things that it forces out: (Stun Spore) Exeggutor is a prime example and Snorlax looks ok as no pokemon likes to switch into it.
    In my experience with Articuno, Snorlax is indeed the most common teammate to paralyse or even take out Starmie and most of the times your opponents will just accept the trade via Selfdestruct.
    Tauros can work too at times: it can take one for the team if Starmie is the 6th pokemon on the opposing team (I expect Articuno to be able to sweep over the rest of the team), and it might incidentally catch a double switch from your opponent too.

    Anyway, there's little to regret when the other options are Ice Beam for accuracy, Double Edge for ambitious CH DE+HB kills and Mimic for miraculous Recover/Softboiled/Thunderbolt steals, considering that Thunderbolt is useful only with a proper setup.
    Working with Sky Attack through paralysis can be frustrating at times, but you get what you settle for.
     
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  10. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Articuno is not in any way a mixed sweeper though. Literally everything on its set that isn't Blizzard is filler. DE is terrible against anything that isn't Zam or Jynx, Hyper Beam is excruciatingly limited, while Sky Attack is of negative utility against Chansey/Star- the odds of things actually working out are pathetic, which means you're far more likely to get your bird crippled for no gain. Although it was a joke, I meant it when I said an empty moveslot is a better choice except against opposing Ice types.

    On a standard Articuno team I think it's far better to not paralyse opposing Chansey so you can threaten with a freeze. Articuno isn't realistically breaking through Chansey without either a Sky Attack crit or a freeze, but the difference between them is that Sky Attack is shooting yourself in the foot when it fails you (which it probably will), while fishing for a freeze is both far far safer and also it's spamming Ice attacks, which is basically Articuno's only strength
     
  11. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

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    Articuno definitely is a mixed sweeper: Lapras is classified as such due to being capable of taking out Chansey (and that’s its historical selling point over Starmie, when Sing wasn’t common) even though admittedly unreliably.
    Articuno is just as worthy given that it has an even easier time at taking out Chansey: it has Agility, a better CH rate, Double Edge hits harder than Body Slam, Sky Attack is an option and at the end of the day Articuno should have 2 physical moves (which Lapras very rarely has) with HB being a must.
    I don’t think Thunderbolt or CRay can make all that difference in that regard.

    DE isn’t terrible (I would call “terrible” an unviable move), it just happens to be specific – hitting Chansey and Jynx (Blizzard does more damage than DE to Alakazam and even Starmie).
    Half of the reason of using Articuno over Lapras is Agility (with the other half being the 2HKO on Tauros and 40%-a-hit against Snorlax); DE+HB or Sky Attack + HB enables that backup game: set Agility up, take out Chansey, try to fire off a Blizzard through paralysis for value.
    I mentioned the struggles of going through paralysis, and it’s pretty obvious that these tools need some kind of setup/advantage to work, especially against Starmie – just like Lapras’ Body Slam + Confuse Ray.
    Can’t assume fresh Chansey vs fresh Articuno.

    Even if your strategy in some games can effectively be “I’m trying to protect my para’d Chansey from attacks and let it win the game”, it shouldn’t devalue options like HB, because you’re getting that chance anyway.

    Sky Attack happens to be the only tool to trade damage with Lapras/Cloyster on a forced switch. At some point, the “oh make a double switch!” argument is overrated: what am I supposed to double switch into? Chansey? Then fish for a freeze letting Snorlax in over and over again? That’s occasionally ok especially for a Rest Articuno (I mean, it could really be the best bet against Slowbro and Rest Cloyster), can’t plan to do that BS against every single Lapras. Dropping Sky Attack feels like giving up, hoping to deal with Ice-types before even revealing Articuno or not face them at all, more than Sky Attack feels like a bad move.
     

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